If all the world is a stage, then Jeff Tremaine, co-creator of MTV’s Jackass, is the greatest puppeteer of the 21st century.

Tremaine, the eternal instigator, manipulated a rag tag cast of half-assed stuntmen and merry pranksters into silver-screened self-mutilation, accidentally sparking a cultural revolution mislead everyone with a camera (and later cellphone) to believing they, too, could be a celebrity. Groundbreaking as was to the mainstream to see a bunch of average Joes fucking themselves up on the regular, the Jackass brand of buffoonery was nothing new to the skateboard world — it had been going on for nearlya decade before Jackass first aired in 2000. During his tenure as Editorial Director of Big Brother in the 90s, Tremaineassembled his own personal Howard Stern-esque Wack Pack that would go on to gross over a half billion dollars.

Hulu recently released DUMB, a documentaryfocusing on the pre-Jackass years of Big Brother Magazine. I caught up with Tremaine, my former Big Brother boss at his Gorilla Flicks office in Burbank to discuss starting fights, his strange nickname, nearly killing Johnny Knoxville, his upcoming Mötley Crüe biopic and of course, Big Brother, the nuthouse that started him down one of the craziest roads in television history.

Before creating Jackass you were the art and editorial director of Big Brother Magazine, one of the most infamous comedic magazines in the genre. How would you describe Big Brother?

It was reckless, fun and sort of punk. We had a fuck-all attitude. We had a boss in the early days with Steve Rocco and then later with Larry Flynt, who left us alone and encouraged our antics. Rocco wanted it as wild as could be. He challenged me to make it that way with a wide-open wallet. Creatively speaking he made sure we had everything we needed. There were no boundaries for anything we wanted to do.

The new documentary, DUMB, on Hulu covers the early years of the magazine extensively, but what were some of the highlights for you personally?

We ran it out of a skate park and then a Vietnam-style compound in El Segundo, and we all lived there. That was our whole life; there was no social life. It was the magazine all the time but it was a fun life. It was pure chaos. The Mardi Gras and East Coast tour in the film were some of my highlights because I got out of the office. Most of the time I got stuck behind a computer at the office while everyone else was out living life and having fun. The Mardi Gras tour landed in the perfect time of my life where I was just ready to lay it out there and steer the ship into some dark waters. We had two van-fulls of interesting skaters and magazine contributors. It was the most random mix of skaters with Ed Templeton, Rob Dyrdek at age 19, Karma Tsocheff, Simon Woodstock, and Scotty Conklin, who was Rob’s friend. Scott is a knock out artist. One punch and you’re dropped. I saw three or four solid knockouts on that trip just from Scott. I was in high spirits on [that] trip. I remember we walked up to a biker bar. A couple guys were at the front door ready to go in, and right before that group gets in I called to them, kicked over a motorcycle and yelled, “Harley down!” Now they’re as guilty as me because they’re with me. Any one of them that gets caught is dead. So we had to run for our lives. That was the kind of tour it was every night. We didn’t even have coverage of half the shit, so it was all hand-drawn in the magazine. The video footage we do have is crazy. One clip is in the French Quarter and there’s a cop car… Karma climbs up on the cop car and drops in on the window while Simon Woodstock is pissing all over the car in a crayon suit. Marc Mckee is making out with some chick… it was the most random chaos.

Have you ever been on the receiving end of a Scotty punch?

Not from him. He liked me, I think. You know how it is, we have big mouths and we like to stir it up. I always liked to start bar fights but not participate in them to see what I could get going. You can’t be too drunk when you do that. You have to be just the right amount of drunk because when you get too drunk you get sloppy and you get caught. One night I was at this one guy’s house in Hermosa Beach who was having a big party and I was wasted. I’m waiting in a long line for the bathroom and I’m bored to death and I see this gnarly gangster cholo dude sitting on the couch. I walk out of the bathroom line, start talking to this dude and I say to him, “I know this is going to sound weird but I was standing in the bathroom line and the dude in front of me keeps looking over at you and saying, “That dude has dick sucking lips.”” The guy just gives me this weird look. It turns out that it was his good friend who I said had said that shit. But he didn’t confront me about it right there. He had to soak it in and it festered with him for a while because later I was sitting in the kitchen, I was pretty blacked out but I remember this dude was right in my face, screaming, “You don’t know who I am!” Next thing I know my friend’s ex-girlfriend is trying to help me up. I’m looking up at all these people that are all concerned. I was like, “Why am I laying on the ground?” Knocked the fuck out. Two shots. I assumed the back of my head was from me falling and then I had two shots to the face. It didn’t hurt that bad; it was kind of cool. I don’t know how long I was out. I have no idea.

Where do you think that comes from? Being such an instigator?

My mom tells me stories about being a little kid in pre-school and my nickname was Ho Chi Minh, because I did not like peace. I would walk in and just bite somebody or make sure shit got started even back then. But Chris, you like to instigate too.

I like to make things uncomfortable.

You like to instigate.

It’s true. I do.

I like chaos. I have always liked chaos. One time we were at The Beauty Bar on Cahuenga, and there was the real feisty Spanish girl that I was talking to. I accidently bumped her into this other girl, and the other girl started talking shit. I first tried to break it up and then I was like, ‘Wait a minute. What am I doing?’ So I nudged her back into the girl and next thing I know the two girls start fighting and then dudes start swinging. The whole bar erupts. I took two steps back, stood against the wall and watched a full-on, best movie-bar-fight ever. There’s been a few of those. What? You don’t do that?

No, never. You made it through the Jackass years relatively unscathed.

I get caught, but it’s usually not on camera. Those guys get me. I remember it was towards the end of the first movie in Europe with [Johnny] Knoxville and Bam [Margera], and we were doing press and our big threat was, “I’m going to come on you, dude!” It was a joke. Well, I thought it was a joke but I also knew to not take it too lightly. So we’re partying pretty hard and one of the days we had to get up at seven in the morning. I get in the back of the mini van and pass out. I wake up because I feel something hit me in the face. I look up and Bam is just lurking over me jacking off. I thought come hit my face and woke me up but it was scarf hanging down. I freaked out and punched him in the bare dick. I felt his whole balls mash into my hand. But if I that scarf didn’t hit me I would’ve gotten it. He was speed stroking, full on trying to make it happen. After that I was sleep deprived because I wouldn’t close my eyes.

I always liken your crew to Howard Stern’s Wack Pack, but you’ve always had an eye for the untalented.

To me character is so much more important than anything. That’s what’s original about people. Anyone can work hard and be good, but with Big Brother, the whole thing was a collection of monkeys. We were the third best [skateboarding] magazine. We were never going to get the best skaters, but what we did best was cultivate personality. That’s what out magazine was; it was the big personality of skateboarding. We didn’t care so much about the pretty pictures. We had some of that, but it was really not our strong point.

Do you feel Big Brother has changed media in general in its elevation of the staff being the characters?

That was not intentional. That just sort of happened. I don’t think of that as very revolutionary. What we were doing was part of what the culture was. Anyone who saw Jackass… it wasn’t very original to any skateboarder. It’s original to anyone that wasn’t part of that culture, but for skateboarders Jackass is just a skate video without a lot of skating.

Do you still look at it that way?

In the early days of Jackass, it wasn’t a specific group. It was just whoever wanted to go shoot stuff. It ended up dwindling down to a small crew, but I think we did some really funny stuff. As far as it being pioneering? I don’t look at it like that. I just felt like we got there first but anyone who came out of skateboarding saw it as a natural thing.

I disagree. It was pre-social media. Yeah, someone eventually would have done it, but I feel like you were the first to make people think, ‘Hell, I could do that. I could be a celebrity.’

The bottom line is they probably could have. Anyone could have shot it as well as (or better), but we did have an exceptional group. And I have to give it to Spike Jonze. He guided us to be as pure as it could be. Without a guardian like Spike, any other version would have gotten polished. What appeals to people is how raw and amateur the thing was. We needed someone like Spike who had the power to fight the execs that wanted to make it more traditional.

I think you have to take some credit for creating the modern day celebrity like Kim Kardashian, who is famous for doing nothing. You elevated the average Joe to believe they could be a superstar.

Yeah, we made some super stars out of some seriously average Joes. But the hell they had to pay there is a bit different. It is a really exceptional group, and didn’t just happen overnight. Pontius, Steve-O and Knoxville were found over time. Those were all the personalities that rose to the top. You were part of it; you know. It wasn’t as happenstance as it seems on TV.

The thing that I found the most shocking about the documentary was the unedited footage of Johnny Knoxville shooting himself to test a bulletproof vest…

Oh yeah. He did it.

Not only did he do it, but the footage in the documentary is disturbing. It’s Russian roulette.

It’s so uncomfortable. When he tells you the full story in the documentary… and his friend who was taking pictures… his friend just killed himself doing some stupid stunt and he’s trying to talk Knoxville out of shooting himself. He’s got a bulletproof vest in the middle of the dessert; the most expensive one he could afford which was the cheapest one on the market. He’s standing there asking his friend to shoot him. His friend won’t do it and so he ends up pointing the gun at himself, point blank. He had drawn a little circle on his shirt as a target. No else wanted to be there. The camera was sort of wandering away and not staying on him. He had a pistol… a revolver… with one bullet. He had the bullet in exactly the wrong spot so he had to click six times, and the sixth time is when it goes off. So it’s like click… click… click… between each click you hear his friends like, “Come on. Let’s get out of here.” Then Knoxville explains the psychology of it and it’s really fascinating. He talks about how he just had a kid so he had to make ends meet. That’s how he made ends meet? I encouraged it all the way, although I wouldn’t let Dimitry [Elyashkevich] be there and that’s why Loomis [Fall] is filming. It was all set but I panicked overnight about letting Dimitry film it. But it’s better that he didn’t because the sketchiness of the footage makes it extra sketchy. But it’s that footage that made Jackass.

Were there any other times over the years where you had that kind of fear for someone’s safety?

Yeah. In the early Jackass days we didn’t have an art director or any help. If we wanted to jump the L.A. River in roller skates, me and the cameraman would screw the ramp together and just do it and film it. No permits. No nothing. One time Knoxville went online and bought three riot control shotgun shells that had little beanbag inserts. It was the earliest version of these things. We get this stuntman who was willing to shoot Johnny. I don’t know where Knoxville found this guy but we’re in his backyard in the valley and Knoxville is like, “Let’s just do it.” I said, “No, man. It’ll be better if we build it up.” So I got a watermelon and set it up with a sheet of plywood behind it. The guy shoots the watermelon and it blows right through it, but it also blew right through the plywood. I was like, “That doesn’t seem right.” Knoxville is like, “Fuck it. We’re here. Let’s just do it.” Again I’m like, “No, man! Hold on.” I grab an even thicker piece of plywood and I drew a circle and I told the guy to shoot it. He shoots at it and misses the circle, it goes like six inches above the circle but rips right through the [thicker] plywood. A big-ass hole. The guy was pretty close to point blank and he was aiming at the circle. Those things just don’t go where they’re supposed to go. The beanbag thing is flying like a Frisbee bullet totally out of control, where you won’t hit what you’re aiming for but if you shot it into a crowd, you will kill somebody. I couldn’t believe they were even selling those things. But Knoxville is like, “Let’s do it and get out of here.” I’m like, “Are you fucking kidding me? Are you watching what I’m watching? If you want to do it, go ahead but every one of you cameramen get in the car. We’re getting the fuck out of here. You can shoot him but I’m not going to be here for that shit.” I had to make him walk away from that shit and he was pissed at me for shutting him down. We eventually did it in the movie when they had a better device with more accuracy that wouldn’t go right through you. That tells you everything about Knox; he’s just Evel Knievel-style. Evel would have the wrong gear and show up and see the crowd and know that if he commits to the jump over however many busses, that he’s eating shit, but, “God damn it! The crowd is here; let’s do this!”

Since the days of Jackass you’ve been doing a bunch of directing, and for years your name has been tied to the Mötley Crüe biopic based on their autobiography, The Dirt.

I have been attached to this goddamn thing for over four years but it feels real right now. We had a home and a studio and it was about to go and then all the execs left. Typical Hollywood stuff. I don’t know how movies get made here; it’s so ridiculous. But we have what feels like the perfect home right now with Netflix, and I’m hoping it all works out. For me to get the gig, I had to win over each one of the band members. I sort of braced up for Nikki [Sixx] to be the hard one. He was the first one I met and I was kind of nervous because when you read the book the dude is intense. I sat down with him and he was super cool, super easy, and we were just jiving together. Tommy [Lee] was who I thought was going to be the easiest one. I figured he’s a bro — this dude is easy. Then I met him and he scrutinized everything, making my interview so hard by nitpicking everything I said. It was awesome. I was so impressed that he was so protective of the band. I had to win him over. The next day he’s texting me, and now he’s my boy, but he made me work for it.   

My attraction to doing the movie was not because I’m the biggest Mötley Crüe fan. I’m an ok fan. But after I read that book, I saw a lot of similarities between them and the Jackass rollercoaster ride. We have a lot of similar stories with the crash-and-burn, and the drugs, and with Mötley Crüe encouraged and expected to be as bad as possible. They were paid a lot of money, and they were never checked. The naughtier they were, the more they were loved. They had a free pass — and the Jackass guys [had] the same thing. Steve-O could take a shit on a red carpet and it would be positive news. If Brad Pitt does, that it’s a devastating career ending move for him. But Steve-O just gets more gigs.

That takes a toll on the guys because all of a sudden you become a caricature of yourself. You get caught up trying to one-up yourself. I think that happened to Mötley Crüe too. You lose track of your moral compass. I feel really connected to this story because of that more than I am connected to their music. 

Over time we wrote the script and had actors do a table reading in front of Nikki and Tommy. I didn’t give them the script to read. I wanted them to hear it all at once. That was how they heard it for the first time. That was intense but they loved it.

There are so many gems in The Dirt. What was one that you read that you instantly visualized on the big screen?

Them meeting Ozzy [Osbourne] around that hotel pool. They snort ants, Ozzy pees all over the pool, and they lick it up. If you’re only surrounded by your team, and you’re in a fucking psycho mode like we were on Jackass, you’re in a bubble. The rules of real life do not apply.

You exist in a snow globe.

Exactly. We’re in a snow globe of chaos and craziness, but I love that too. That pool scene happens at this little Podunk hotel with all these normos there dealing with Ozzy and Mötley Crüe in their worst.

Have you thought about how you’re going to work the real band’s cameo into the film?

You got to really hide them. I don’t want anything like that to knock you out of the movie. It’s a scary movie to make, to be honest, because of how easily one wrong move… one wrong wig turns it into a big parody. Boogie Nights did it great. I always look at Boogie Nights as one of the only movies that took a really loud scene in a really loud subculture in a really loud time period, and played it perfectly. They go big and over-the-top every now and then, but you feel like you’re watching real people in that movie. The characters are so great in that movie. That is my goal: to follow that lead.

One question I’m always asked and I’ll throw it on your lap since you own the rights to Big Brother, is why don’t you bring the magazine back?

I loved Big Brother. There’s no doubt I loved the magazine and we kind of are bringing it back with this movie… but once I got outside more, I appreciated being outside. Most of my job at Big Brother was behind a computer for 14 hours a day. I remember when Rocco hired me and we did a few issues… I went and saw my friends in San Francisco and I said, “Here’s my problem: I’ve peaked in life right now. I have my dream job, I’m getting paid $1000 a week, I’m never going to make this kind of money again. I have the greatest fucking life,” and everything since then, to me, has felt the same. Like the Jackass ride felt like the same job. Even though I had to learn a new business, it wasn’t too much different than Big Brother. I play myself and I take all the pieces and put it all together. So I’ve never for a second thought, ‘Man, I have to bring Big Brother back.’

But isn’t right now the time to have such a comedic and antagonistic outlet?

It’s a better time now than it’s been since it died. It’s interesting because as the world started moving towards political correctness, Big Brother died before it got to its worst. Big Brother was never a politically correctmagazine. We never did anything nice and easy. My one optimistic nugget that I hold close in regards is that I grew up in the Reagan-era punk rock scene; a great time for art and music that hasn’t happened since (in my opinion). I’m really hoping that Trump gets under the artists’ skin and they bloom and shock me with some awesome angst-filled music, art, magazine — something is going to come out in these next four years that I’m going to get entertained by. That’s my one glimmer of hope… everything else is fucked.

PHOTOS: SHUTTERSTOCK / S_BUKLEY; GETTY IMAGES / FREDERICK M. BROWN